On our Season Four premiere we talk to Jared Leaf, writer/director of Spilled Milk about working with Jordan Peele and Monkeypaw, the joy of Black audiences, and how to do previz with LEGO.
Listen to “The White Meat Podcast” on Spreaker.Here’s the transcript:
David Dylan Thomas: Hey everybody, welcome to the White Meat podcast. I’m your host David Dylan Thomas, writer and director of White Meat, which is a movie with the following premise: Underneath Washington Square Park are buried the bodies of hundreds of enslaved people. What if one night they all came back from the dead as zombies, but they only eat white people?
We’re back with season four. We’ve been on hiatus for a few months, and in that time some amazing stuff has happened. The big news I really wanna share with you is that White Meat: Appetizer, a short film that’s a pilot for the feature just won the Audience Award at the United We Heal Film Festival in Philadelphia.
I was super excited about that. It was such a wonderful moment. You can find some footage of it on our Instagram @whitemeatmovie. And I’m just so happy about that. And we’ve got a lot of other stuff going on, but that was, for our season opener, I wanted to just hit you with that and thank everybody involved and thank all the fans.
We had some… Our editor was there. We had some Kickstarter patrons there. We, it was just great. It was just awesome. And it’s also a wonderful festival that you should check out at United We Heal Film Festival. Just Google that. It’ll show up. So yeah, it was an amazing night and now we’re back.
And for our first episode of the season we’re talking to Jared Leaf, who directed a horror short called Spilled Milk. And I met him at our first festival where we premiered at the Pan African Film Festival, which was another great festival, and we talk all about that. And we talk about his short, which was produced by the one and only Jordan Peele.
We get into that, and it’s just a great conversation, so we will get right to it, our interview with Jared Leaf.
[musical interlude]
David Dylan Thomas: Welcome to the White Meat Podcast. I’m your host David Dylan Thomas and today I’ve got a very special guest. Jared, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell folks what it is you get up to?
Jared Leaf: Yeah. Thanks, David. I’m glad to be here. My name is Jared Leaf. I’m a writer, director, and producer, been a filmmaker for a little over a decade now, and one of my latest projects is called “Spilled Milk.” It answers the question, what happened to all those deadbeat dads that went to the store to get milk and never came back?
David Dylan Thomas: So we met, the first time I saw this movie, we were both at the Pan African Film Festival, thankfully in the same block. It was a good horror sci-fi block. And, I was very impressed. Tell me a little bit about the road. Like, how did you end up actually at the Pan African Film Festival? Tell me about that journey.
Jared Leaf: Yeah, absolutely. so the film was part of a program called No Drama, which was a joint effort, started by Jordan Peele and Monkeypaw, and in partnership with Universal and Toronto Film Festival and the goal was to get more monster stories from a more diverse pool of filmmakers and so that’s where it started. I submitted, I think there were like almost like 4,000 submissions for that and five of us got in and so that’s where the journey started. From there, just got a lot of support from Universal.
I got a producer who was working at Monkeypaw at the time, Jamal Watson, and his partner, Casey Lehner. We worked on the film. We went into development for eight weeks working on the script, pre-production, casting, all that good stuff. We shot the film in April 2025 and we premiered at Toronto International Film Festival in September 2025.
David Dylan Thomas: Wow. That is fast.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. It was a quick turn, but we had a great team. We had a great infrastructure in place. Everything was on a very, rigorous, regimented schedule. So yeah, we cranked that out, premiered at Toronto, and then submitted to a few film festivals and was just so juiced to get into the Pan African Film Festival cause first of all, it was a chance to screen in LA where we shot the film and where a lot of our crew is located and cast but also just like that’s our audience for this film.
David Dylan Thomas: So when you say that’s your audience, elaborate a little more on that.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. So again, the film is, it’s about what happened to all these deadbeat dads that went to the store to get milk and never came back. And I– the personal connection to it is I grew up without my dad and growing up as a kid, I just remember hearing Black jokes all the time about how Black people don’t have dads. And so inherently, like that Black experience is baked into the idea, right? And certain audiences won’t feel it or resonate with it as much and other audiences will and I think just Black people and the effect that fatherlessness has had on the Black community is something that really resonates when we see one of these stories take place.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. And just to clarify, this is a short film. Are there plans for a feature?
Jared Leaf: There are plans for a feature.
David Dylan Thomas: Excellent.
Jared Leaf: We gotta keep it going, man.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah, totally. Are you, at liberty to divulge any more than that right now, or is this, one of those…
Jared Leaf: No, I’m not, David.
David Dylan Thomas: It’s always interesting ’cause I have similar situations when, I am also trying to take my short and turn it into a feature, and there’s certain things that come up and you’re like, “Oh, God, I wish I could talk about this, but I can’t really” or more often than not, I’m not sure if I can. And I’m not gonna risk it. So tell me what it’s like. So first off, how many movies is this for you? How many shorts or features have you made so far?
Jared Leaf: I’ve done about seven or eight shorts.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: “Spilled Milk” is one of the first that I wrote and directed.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay, cool prior to that, were you just directing, just writing? What was your kind of experience prior to this?
Jared Leaf: I started out as a real estate photographer and videographer.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay, that’s a first. Tell me about that journey.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. That’s one of the first jobs I was able to get, coming out of college. Me and my friends had actually briefly started a real estate photography and videography company that kind of fizzled out. I went and finished college, and then I found a job at another company in the Bay Area doing real estate photos and videos. I kept getting in trouble because I was taking too much time with the videos, trying to make them too cinematic. They’re like, “We’re selling hot dogs here, man. Make a video and send it to the client.” Eventually, I was doing a lot of work at that company and I realized I had all the gear myself and I could make a lot more money just doing it myself.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: So in March of 2020, I moved to LA to chase my dreams and start my production company.
David Dylan Thomas: Now, when you did that, I’m curious, did you feel like, “Oh, I’m a cliché”? Did you feel, daunted by the bigness of it, or were you more “I got this”?
Jared Leaf: Ooh. I definitely felt daunted.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: Yeah, it was a big move, but I think at a certain point in life, I realized you need to have a little bit of fuck it.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Just go for it.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: So yeah, that the fuck it energy overtook the trepidation.
David Dylan Thomas: I feel like that energy is necessary to all I would say to all artists, frankly, but especially filmmakers, because it’s like, if you wanna paint a painting, you can maybe get it done. If you wanna make a movie, you gotta, get 50 people to agree with you.
Jared Leaf: Yeah.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. And that’s even before you get the money.
Jared Leaf: Exactly.
David Dylan Thomas: So tell me about the experience… it’s part of the reason I asked how many movies you’d made before this, ’cause, I think a lot of filmmakers, out there making short films, doing their thing, are not doing it with Universal. What was the difference, given that you had that contrast, working with, a major studio versus just getting together with, your friends or your crew or whatever to just, knock something out?
Jared Leaf: That’s a good question, I mean, it’s a lot.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: It’s kinda night and day. But just going back over it, I think the biggest thing was just having access to certain people when you have questions.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: It’s like yeah I have no idea, how to execute a certain shot.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, okay …
Jared Leaf: If you remember in my film, there’s one, big shot that’s like a big reveal. I don’t wanna give it away.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: No spoilers. But when I wrote that, I’m like, “I have no idea how to make that happen.” But, one of the first things we did, with this program was have like a four-day boot camp at Universal where we learned the studio filmmaking process and met a lot of the execs and people that oversee different departments at Universal. So even in that, like we were able to rely on them and ask questions about what’s the best way to execute something like this based on the budget that we have. And so just I think that’s the biggest thing. Our budget was 50 grand. So it’s a great budget for a short, but also-
David Dylan Thomas: But it’s not all the money in the world.
Jared Leaf: I know. Not all the money in the world.
David Dylan Thomas: I know.
Jared Leaf: So just being able to rely on people like that when you have questions of “How do we execute this at a high level but within budget?”
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: That was one of the biggest things.
David Dylan Thomas: Now was that– did that make it easier? Cause y- there’s a little star power in your flick. We got Jerry O’Connell doing a great job. And again, no spoilers. When you see him, you’ll see. But, and then, a certain, a musical artist, makes an appearance as well. Can you tell me a little bit about those? I won’t call them cameos. They’re kinda r- like it’s a short film. Everybody kinda gets, equal screen time. But can you tell me a little bit about, about, getting that, level of fame into your film?
Jared Leaf: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s… Okay, so the number one thing, my, one of my executive producers on the film because of the program is Jordan Peele.
David Dylan Thomas: I’m sorry, I’m not familiar.
Jared Leaf: Oh. Let me send you some links to his stuff.
David Dylan Thomas: See, is he foreign? I don’t know. I’ve never…
Jared Leaf: No, he had a little comedy show back in the day, and then he tried to break into movies.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, he was the guy who was with Key. Yeah. I remember he had a partner, yes.
Jared Leaf: Yeah, he did. He did. Apparently when you mention this guy’s name, a lot of doors open, a lot of doors that might not open up otherwise.
David Dylan Thomas: Sure. Now, do you have to actually know him? ‘Cause I’m totally game to just be like, “Yo, Ryan Coogler, I know Jordan Peele. Help me out with something.”
Jared Leaf: You know me.
David Dylan Thomas: Do they track is what I’m asking.
Jared Leaf: That I don’t know. One of the biggest blessings was just having a great producer attached to the project. So like when we– ’cause Monkeypaw was a big part of it, we kinda were welcomed into the Monkeypaw family and each of us were assigned one or more producers who worked at Monkeypaw to be a producer on our film. And so my producer was Jamal Watson, and Jamal has a production company, and Monkeypaw as well was working with Kid Cudi on some music videos and so he was with Kid Cudi around the time that we were finishing up the script, and he showed the script and told him about the project.
And one day he texts me out of the blue. He says, “Yo, Kid Cudi wants to score your film.”
David Dylan Thomas: I have never gotten a text like that. What does that feel like?
Jared Leaf: I can’t explain it to this day. This whole experience was just a kind of a mind fuck.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Getting texts like that and I’m rolling with it. I’m like, “Yeah, let’s do it.” I still gotta do the project and be confident, but at the same time, there’s just moments where I’m either on set or, working or in a Zoom meeting with these people, and I’m like, “What the hell is going on right now?”
David Dylan Thomas: I kinda know what you mean ’cause, even with, the speed of it, were you expecting it to be done that quickly? Go from shooting to festival in that short a space of time?
Jared Leaf: Yeah. We always knew the festival was baked in.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay. Okay.
Jared Leaf: We knew the timeline, and they made us very aware. We had another executive producer on the project, Kesla, Kesla Childers, who was keeping us in the loop in terms of like- “Here’s what we’re doing now. In eight weeks, you’ll be doing this. Then you’ll have three weeks of this.” So we knew what the calendar was.
David Dylan Thomas: It’s like when a movie already has a release date plugged in. You know what I mean? But yeah, even with just, like, when we finished shooting White, it was for “White Meat: Appetizer,” when we finished shooting, it was like, “Wait we did that. Wait, b- really? We did that?” And then when we got post happened surprisingly quickly, and it’s “Wait, we’re ready to show this to people in the fall? Really? Okay.”
And then just little things would happen for us it was this band called Gangstagrass that I knew from just different interactions before. Their claim to fame is the theme song from “Justified.” And, I just wanted to be like, “Hey, how much for, our podcast? I’d like you to do a little 30-second, music for our podcast.” And they were like, “You know what? We’ll just do it for fun and credit.” I’m like, “Okay, cool.” And then they send me back something that’s two minutes long and 30-seconds long, and the two-minute one was like, “This would be really good for the closing credits.” So again, I’m just “Hey, would you be cool?” And they’re like, “Absolutely.”
But and again, it’s one of those things you’re like, “Okay, I actually…” I was worried about having to go look for royalty-free music on some shitty website. And now I’ve got Gangstagrass in my fucking credits here. What the fuck just happened? But again, you roll with it, right? You’re just “Okay.”
Jared Leaf: Tell me, because your credit sequence is very special.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Did– Was the specialness of it baked into it before you got that song from Gangstagrass, or was it because…
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, this was– This is one of those God is good kinda stories, ’cause we originally, there was no… And I’ll just tell people. It’s not that much of a spoiler, but, there is a dance sequence at the end of– If you stay for the credits-there, there’s a little dance sequence in there. And originally we hired a choreographer to help us figure out how the zombies move, ’cause this was a new kind of zombie and we wanted them to have a new kind of movement. And so we hired the choreographer to do this, and she, she was amazing.
I was just supposed to show up at the end of the day. They had one day of rehearsal. I was supposed to show up at the end of the day and see what she’d come up with. So she sits me down, puts on some music, and the two dancer zombies, ’cause they’re actually dancers, and my one, zombie lead come out and they do a dance, like a full-on choreographed dance.
I’m like, “What the hell is happening? Also, this is amazing.” And what she told me later was, “Look, this, I did that because I wanted to come up with a vocabulary of moves for them that we could then apply to the actual action in the movie.” And then she was like, “But secretly I hoped you would like it and put it in the movie.”
And I’m like, “Your plan worked. You devious motherfucker, your plan worked. I have to figure out a way to put this in the movie now.” And we figured, okay, we’ll put it in the closing credits. And again, you know these shooting schedules are tight. It was the last thing on the call sheet because we have to get everything else, and it’s if you have any time left…
And we literally had, I think it was like 10:30, and we had to be out of the staging area by 11:00. And it’s “Okay, we have one take.” “Everybody else go ahead and start clearing out the staging area. You three with the camera person stay here.” We got one take. We did it, and it was like, “Perfect. Everyone get out.”
Oh my goodness. so that’s just the dance itself. And then the music, like I said, it was choreographed to copyrighted music. We had no illusion we’d have money for that and when I was sent the music for the podcast, I was just like… I already had all the raw footage, so I was like, “Fuck it. Let me see what happens.” And I played the music over the footage of the dance, and it synced perfectly. It synced like it was planned. I’m like, “This is like the God is good part.” It’s like, “Oh my fucking God.” So I immediately reached out to Gangstagrass. I’m like, “Hey, can I…?” And they’re like, “Sure.” And then the end all be all of the coincidence part of this.
So my, my choreographer when she first saw the music that it was choreographed to and I told her it was Gangstagrass, she’s “No way. I know one of the guys in Gangstagrass, and we have been looking for a project to work together on.”
Jared Leaf: What?
David Dylan Thomas: So I actually got them to work together on a project without them even knowing it.
That’s one of those, again holy crap, this is amazing. Also, I’m just gonna roll with it.
Jared Leaf: It was meant to be.
David Dylan Thomas: That’s what I love about this business, though. It’s like you’ll do all these things that are just like crazy, and some of them will go nowhere, and others will have moments like that where you’re like, I could not have planned that.
I could not have said, ‘Hey, do you know any good musicians?’ or asked Gangstagrass, ‘Do you know any good choreographers?'” Like that is not how this happened, but you would imagine looking at it from the outside, right?
Look up how “Beverly Hills Cop” came together sometime. It is the most random clusterfuck-y kind of thing that you see the finished product and you’re like, “Oh, that must’ve been planned very careful.” It’s oh no, this is a bunch of hamsters in a cage bumping into each other, and somehow we got this movie. That’s what I love about this business is that like it takes both somehow.
Jared Leaf: Yeah, it’s so true. But what a better sign that you’re doing exactly what you’re supposed to be doing.
David Dylan Thomas: Honestly, that is one of the reassuring… and it’s one of those like when you start getting like, the rejection side of this business, it’s “Oh my God, I can’t believe I didn’t get into that festival. I thought for sure I’d get into that festival.” but then you meet someone at a totally random festival and it’s “Oh, I didn’t even know this opportunity existed. Now I’m doing this thing that’s so much cooler than this other thing.” what has your experience of that been like? Is this something you’ve always wanted to do, always wanted to get into, or did you fall into filmmaking?
Jared Leaf: That’s a great question. I literally fell into it.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: Because I was a football player. I was gonna go play in the league. I was gonna be all, all pro.
David Dylan Thomas: Did you have a preferred destination?
Jared Leaf: Probably the 49ers, man.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay. Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Not the Eagles, I’ll tell you that. But, yeah, I was playing football, and I fell on the ground and hit my head on the earth.
David Dylan Thomas: Oof.
Jared Leaf: And I got a little concussion. And then I, a couple days later, I came back and I did it again. And I got another little concussion. And when you stack a concussion on a concussion, you get what’s called a mega concussion.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh my God.
Jared Leaf: I just coined that term right now.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay. You had me going. I would’ve been like, “Oh yeah, that’s a thing, mega concussion.”
Jared Leaf: It’s gonna be a thing now. I got a mega concussion. And that put me out for six weeks, man.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh my God.
Jared Leaf: My brain was if you opened up like a 2008 MacBook laptop and tried to start it up, and it’s just like “zzzzzhhhhhh”
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Slow and rickety. That was my brain. That was my operating system. And so that was very scary, number one, but also very depressing.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And one of my friends saw that I was depressed, and he had just bought a Canon Rebel T5i.
Any of you DSLR enthusiasts out there know that is like-
David Dylan Thomas: Oh yeah, that was the Porsche…
Jared Leaf: A great camera.
David Dylan Thomas: …of fucking cameras back then.
Jared Leaf: Oh yeah. and so he brought one of those home. He’s “Let’s go shoot some stuff, man.” And just doing that and like capturing the beauty on lens or like capturing something funny on camera, just like creating these moments and crafting these moments, that was the thing that, number one, pulled me out of depression from that and it gave me a new goal because I had dedicated 20 years of my life to football and that all disappeared at age 22 and so that gave me something new to be excited about-
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah …
Jared Leaf: Which was filmmaking. And just for fun during college, I had taken acting classes, and I took an acting and directing class.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, wow.
Jared Leaf: And so without even reali- I was just doing it for fun. I was just messing around, but I was like building those skills as I was doing that and then funny enough, like I, I took communication. I’m a communication major. When you’re a football player, you major in communication. That’s how it goes and it’s in the same building as like radio, television, and film. I went to San Jose State, Spartan up. Shout out to the Spartans. But it’s in the same building as radio, television, and film, and theater arts. So I took a lot of communication like crossover classes, and my minor is in performance studies. So I actually have a degree in performance studies, that I had no idea I was getting. And because of that, the transition to filmmaking made a lot of sense. I also just love movies, man.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Movies and TV shows. And that, yeah, that was like, what? I don’t wanna date myself, but that was like 10, 11 years ago now and I’ve just been all in ever since.
David Dylan Thomas: Now is your love of movies, does that predate all of this? Were you loving movies while you were playing football?
Jared Leaf: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think, at my apartment I had “Rush Hour” one and two on DVD.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: It was a nightly thing, man. Just cycle those movies.
David Dylan Thomas: I gotta say, “Rush Hour” of the American Jackie Chan movies, I feel like “Rush Hour,” especially the first one, is some of the best, I don’t like Brett Ratner for many reasons, but he did get how to capture Jackie Chan on film. He got how to keep the camera far enough back to just let Jackie do his thing. You know what I mean?
Jared Leaf: It was a perfect American lens through which to view him.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Jared Leaf: Cause he’s this very special outsider. And through it, he’s ingratiating himself in the culture, and learning that along the way. So yes, I understand, it’s hard to separate the art from the artist sometimes.
David Dylan Thomas: Sure.
Jared Leaf: But yeah, those movies for me, they just did it. But it even goes back further than that, going back to growing up without my dad- there’s a lot of life lessons that a father can teach you.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And in the absence of him, I watched too much TV.
David Dylan Thomas: Sure.
Jared Leaf: And those characters turned out to be the ones that taught me life lessons.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: How to navigate life, how to tell right from wrong, how to be charismatic and, or be brave or, be funny, right? And so I think, and my mom just had a love of movies. She used to put me on to a whole lot of stuff, too, from a young age. I think she took me to, to “Mighty Morphin Power Rangers”-
David Dylan Thomas: Nice …
Jared Leaf: When I was 2 years old. The way she tells it, I sat on the edge of my seat in silence for the whole runtime.
David Dylan Thomas: That’s fantastic.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. Yeah, man. Love movies.
David Dylan Thomas: So I didn’t meet my dad until I was, like, 25 years old. So I also, in those formative years, did not know my father, and similarly, I found myself being raised by my amazing mother, but on the sort of masculine side, Martin Riggs, James Bond, Indiana Jones, Han Solo, right?
There’s a whole other layer of these are all white dudes, to get into.
Jared Leaf: That’s real.
David Dylan Thomas: But, right? But just that I– I share that kinship of these are the folks who are teaching me what it is to be a man, what is right and wrong, how do I get with the ladies, right?
Like, all of these things. And to be fair, they were not all great lessons. John Hughes steered me down a couple bad paths, I think. But, it’s a very distinct thing, right? Can you tell me what some of those, influences were, who some of your television, movie mentors were in the absence of your father?
Jared Leaf: That is a great question, man. I don’t know if I’ve thought about it that deeply. When I was younger, I had a friend, Ian, and, he showed me movies, but he was white, so he showed me white movies.
David Dylan Thomas: Sure.
Jared Leaf: And he put me onto some bangers, I ain’t gonna lie, right? So Indiana Jones, right? Just being brave and calm and having fun and going on adventures and doing the right thing, right? Also, he put me on “The Mummy.” Brendan Fraser.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. A lot of stuff like that on just, movies are led by very charismatic men who are brave and going on these big adventures, but having fun along the way.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: So yeah, that was kinda like my early introduction. He would just put me onto a bunch of little things. Also some very high concept stuff this kid was putting me on. I don’t know if he knew it, but, you ever seen “Stay Tuned”?
David Dylan Thomas: No, I’ve– that’s where they get stuck in the TV, right?
Jared Leaf: That’s where they get stuck in the TV, yeah.
David Dylan Thomas: I haven’t seen it, but I’ve heard it’s better than you think it is.
Jared Leaf: It is great.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay. I gotta check this out.
Jared Leaf: In my opinion. That’s my nine-year-old brain talking, but still, I have a little bit of faith in that kid. and yeah, it’s John Ritter, and he’s a couch potato, and him and his wife get sucked into the TV.
And they have to navigate through all these parodies of other TV shows where these shows are trying to kill you.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, wow.
Jared Leaf: They have to survive 24 hours in order to get out of the TV.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, that’s great.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. It’s a great, supporting performance from Eugene Levy, as well, in there. But yeah, just awakening that creativity and curiosity when it comes to, the concept of the film.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: I think that was really important too.
David Dylan Thomas: It’s funny, I had a similar– I don’t know when or how I caught onto it, but I grew up loving surrealism and loving that kind of high concept, “I’m gonna turn the medium on its head.”
I remember one of my favorite cartoons growing up was a Warner Brothers, cartoon called “Duck Amuck,” and it’s, Daffy Duck, and he just basically starts out normal, but then he gets into a fight with the cartoonist, and he spends the rest of the cartoon just having to deal with basically this god-like figure who can just literally paint a hole and now he has to fall through and fighting, but it’s the most surreal, high concept shit, and I love– I think that’s part of my love of horror and sci-fi is you can do surrealistic stuff, and yet it all has an explanation. It’s not just totally random. And I think that’s what drew me to that particular genre.
Do you have, genre loves? Is it a coincidence that “Spilled Milk” is a horror film? Like, how do you feel about genre?
Jared Leaf: Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, I just gotta circle back on that.
David Dylan Thomas: Sure.
Jared Leaf: There’s a show that my daughter loves. It’s called “How Not to Draw.”
David Dylan Thomas: Really? Okay.
Jared Leaf: It’s on Disney+.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: And all the episodes are maybe like three minutes max. They’re very short episodes, but it’s kinda like a drawing tutorial of how to draw different Disney characters.
And then those characters come to life-
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, wow …
Jared Leaf: And run amok.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, that’s amazing. I’ve gotta check that out.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. Check it out, man. if you like Duck Amuck, I think that, that’s like. I love what you said, too. That’s what drew you.
David Dylan Thomas: Ah, yeah. I’m always working, Jared.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. genre-wise, man, you know what? Genre’s interesting for me because I n- I never liked horror films for a long time. I stayed at my dad’s house one time when I was a kid, and, this movie called “Nightmare on Elm Street” was on the TV.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, man. How old were you?
Jared Leaf: I was, seven.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, dude.
Jared Leaf: Yeah.
David Dylan Thomas: You okay?
Jared Leaf: No. No. No.
David Dylan Thomas: No, you shouldn’t be.
Jared Leaf: I probably spent the next 10 years of my life going up the stairs too fast because I thought Freddy Krueger’s right behind me.
David Dylan Thomas: Yep.
Jared Leaf: That movie makes you afraid to fall asleep.
David Dylan Thomas: That makes, movie makes you afraid of everything because in, in the dream, this is why I always preferred Freddy to the other slashers. In the dream world, Freddy can use anything to kill you. He can grab your head and shove you into a TV. The, you’re running up the stairs can just turn to mud. Like-
Jared Leaf: Yeah …
David Dylan Thomas: Nowhere is safe.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. Oh, it’s sick. It’s great.
David Dylan Thomas: I know. that’s why I love it, ’cause it’s so much creativity.
Jared Leaf: Yes. Very creative. as a seven-year-old you can’t separate creativity from reality.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And so that kinda put me off to scary movies for a long time cause I’m like, “No, I’m not doing that.” one of the movies that got me back into it was “Insidious.”
David Dylan Thomas: That movie’s scary as fuck. I’m sorry. It’s…
Jared Leaf: It is. I learned to– It’s funny, I learned to laugh at scary movies because of that movie. Because there’s a lot of things that are scary but funny at the same time.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Like a little kid and, tiptoe through the window. He was dancing. It was terrifying but hilarious at the same time.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Which is interesting because now everybody knows, comedy and horror are cousins.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Jared Leaf: And so I love comedy. That’s probably one of my favorite genres growing up, like all the shows and everything that I, and even movies that I like, like the comedy and the levity of it is what I appreciated the most and so coming back to “Spilled Milk,” I had this idea and it came right around the time that I found out I was gonna be a dad.
And so it shifted my judgments on what I thought of my dad and what he shoulda did and how he shoulda handled this fatherhood thing. And I started to think about what could take me away from my family.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And almost instantly, I was like, “What happened to all those dads that, went to the store to get milk?” Because that term is ubiquitous. We know what it means.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: What happened to them? And almost instantly, plucked out of the cosmos into my brain was like they got kidnapped by an evil milkman. And I was like, that is so dumb. So dumb it just might work.
David Dylan Thomas: No, and I think, what you said is right about comedy and horror, ’cause both of them all rely on timing. You get the timing wrong on horror or comedy, you’re gonna get the opposite reaction of what you want.
Jared Leaf: Yep.
David Dylan Thomas: But I do think oh, there’s a guy and if you go to sleep, he’ll kill you in your sleep, and he’ll do it by jamming your head in the TV.
That’s kinda dumb. Like, why doesn’t he just get a gun and shoot you? What the fuck? I think there is a necessary silliness. And it’s really what you do with that silliness, and how you let that silliness tap into something deeper that we are genuinely afraid of, right?
I think that’s how horror– That’s some of it, my favorite kind of horror, right? Where it’s this thing that if you really stand back far enough, it doesn’t take a long time to be like, “Okay, that’s the dumbest thing I ever heard.”
In fact, that’s a lot of what in movies. It’s like the main character can’t be believed because the thing they’re afraid of is you’re saying the person smiled at you and now people are dying. What the fuck? The idea that, okay, what I’m really tapping into is trauma and trauma getting transferred or whatever that particular theme is, and it’s “Oh yeah, I can relate to that, and I don’t want to.”
Jared Leaf: Exact- And I think– Okay, so back to your question about what genres I like. I love, my favorite thing to do regardless of genre is take a completely absurd and ridiculous idea and make it make sense.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, I love that shit. I used to literally make doodles of just random shit and be like, “Okay, I have to write a story that makes this and this fit together.” I love shit like that.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. It’s almost like a creative puzzle, right?
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And then you want it to land and resonate, so it’s keep that absurdity ’cause that’s what stands out and that’s what hooks people. But also, how do you ground that in truth?
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And so to your point about genre, when I had this idea, because of the lane that Jordan Peele created. Other people have played in this lane as well, but I think “Get Out” was really revolutionary-
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, yeah …
Jared Leaf: As far as what you could do for social horror and Afrosurreal horror that was just top of mind. And so as soon as I had this idea, I knew it had to be, like, in that very Jordan Peele, “Monkeypaw” lane of this social commentary but also just a fun and freaky idea.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. And I feel like it’s funny, like I feel like we still don’t know just how influential Get Out really was. Cause I can’t tell you how many people… Like, when I talk about how Get Out jumpstarts my journey as a horror filmmaker and your journey, all these other people it’s their eyes light up either through recognition as a fan or recognition as a creator. It’s “Oh yeah, that was a turning point for me, too. I realized we could do this and this and this.”
Even if you look at the box office right now these stories about oh, Backrooms and Obsession are top in the box office. That does not happen without Get Out. A lot of things come out of, even from the way we make horror movies, Blumhouse and Monkeypaw, the way they operate even at the business level, that is all part of that story. I think it’s amazing.
Now did you, in fact, get to meet Jordan Peele, during this process?
Jared Leaf: I did.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh my God. Tell me everything.
Jared Leaf: Okay, so I met Jordan three times throughout the process.
The first time was on, once we found out that we got into the program, me and other filmmakers got to hop on a Zoom. I wasn’t at home. I was at a hotel at the time, and so I was downstairs, on the hotel Wi-Fi.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, wow.
Jared Leaf: They had us for this meeting, and they said, “We have a special guest for you.” And it was like Monkeypaw assistant, but it wasn’t an assistant. When he came on camera, there he was in all his glory, Jordan Peele. And, yeah, I remember he was like, “I just wanna tell you guys congratulations. And, there’s, the best thing I ever learned about screenwriting, it-“
David Dylan Thomas: So for those of you, just listening in, Jared just froze on camera.
Jared Leaf: No. No.
David Dylan Thomas: That’s amazing.
Jared Leaf: And then he finally comes back on, “And that’s all you’ll ever need to know.”
David Dylan Thomas: You could not have written that better. That’s amazing.
Jared Leaf: I know. I know. The second time I met him was that time we went to Universal and did our bootcamp. and so we got to have a meeting with him. And, this was just, like an hour just to talk to him, learn about his process, the ins and outs and oddly, the lingering effects of the mega concussion kicked in because as soon as he walked in the room, my brain was like, “Err.” And everybody’s asking questions, “So what did you think?” and, “How did you do this?” And I’m sitting close to him, right? So he’s answering other people’s questions, and he turns to me, he’s “Anything?” “Big bro?” All I could say was, “I’m just happy to be here, Jordan.”
Oh, man. So that was, that was, that was a low point in my life. No. It was, it was great. And then I remember one of the funny things, we had a little reception after that, and I’m the only Black male, that was part of the program I kid you not, he was saying goodbye to everybody, and this was just like the Key & Peele skit with Obama.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh my God.
Jared Leaf: “Nice to meet you. Hey, so great to meet you.” “Yeah, good to meet you.” He comes to me, “Hey, brother.”
I’m like, oh, man. and then the last time we got to spend some time with him was at Toronto International Film Festival.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, cool cool.
Jared Leaf: He had watched all of our films. He gave us, amazing, detailed feedback on all of them, right before we went to the screening. I got to hear, his thoughts on “Spilled Milk” and everything like that, which was just like a dream come true.
David Dylan Thomas: Wow.
Jared Leaf: And then we had a reception afterwards, and we all got, some time to just chat one-on-one with him a little bit. So yeah, man, got to meet one of the GOATs.
David Dylan Thomas: That’s amazing, ’cause honestly, I, whenever I think about something like that, it’s like I don’t think I’d have been able to kept my cool.
I think what would happen is, ’cause I did this. There’s a really famous guy… ‘Cause the other thing I do is, I used to have a podcast about cognitive bias, and I do a lot of cognitive bias in tech work as a speaker and a workshop runner. And so the GOAT in cognitive bias is this guy named Daniel Kahneman.
He wrote the book called “Thinking Fast and Slow” and all this stuff. So I end up at this conference, and I’m sitting at this table and with some other people, and Daniel Kahneman just comes up and sits down at the table, and he’s just chatting. And everyone– You could tell a couple people there actually knew him.
They’re like, “Oh, Dr. Kahneman,” or Dr. whatever “How’s it going?” Dan. Some of them called him Danny. I’m like, “You get to call him Danny? Really?” And I’m sitting there and I’m like, literally every episode of my podcast, I bring up something he did, he found out. And I’m just sitting there “I’m gonna be cool. I’m gonna be cool. I’m gonna be cool. I’m gonna be cool.” And then after about 20 minutes, it’s “Oh, Mr. Kahneman, I do this podcast, and it’s so good. And you guy– I talk about you, and you’re awesome, and this is cool.” And then he’s “Thank you.” I’m like, “Okay, I’m gonna stop now.” So I, I do not trust myself.
If I ever actually meet Jordan Peele, I do not trust myself. It’s 50/50 I’m gonna be, like, really cool or I’m just gonna be like, “Mr. Peele, you changed everything. You’re a man. I just… I’m gonna, I’m gonna sit down now.” So I think you did great, is what I’m saying. I think you did great.
Jared Leaf: Oh, thank you, man. Yeah, I went the other direction. I turned into a mute.
David Dylan Thomas: That’s awesome, man. So what’s next for the short? Do you have more, festivals lined up? Are you full into next project mode? What’s going on with you?
Jared Leaf: Yeah. We’re just coming out of, ABFF.
David Dylan Thomas: Congratulations. You won something there, right?
Jared Leaf: Yeah man our film won the HBO Short Film Award.
David Dylan Thomas: Congratulations, man. That’s awesome.
Jared Leaf: Thank you, man. Thank you. Just a surreal, incredible moment, and such a great event. ABFF is lit. But yeah, go ahead.
David Dylan Thomas: No, I just wanted to circle back real quick, ’cause first tell folks what ABFF stands for.
Jared Leaf: ABFF stands for the American Black Film Festival.
David Dylan Thomas: So I wanna ask you about this, ’cause this is something I felt. So the first festival, my movie got into, and I guess the second for you, was the Pan African Film Festival, and I got– And they had this wonderful reception early on at the Directors Guild in LA.
And I’m sitting there in this massive banquet hall, and it’s just Black and brown faces as far as the eye can see. Men, women, some Americans, some from the Caribbean, like what-what-whatever. But I had never been in a room with that many Black filmmakers in my life. And that was, that in and of itself was just this memorable moment, and it just, it hit different.
‘Cause I’ve been to fi- film festivals before, but- I won’t say I’ve never been to one that Black. I’ve been to BlackStar. I’d never been in the room with Black filmmakers like that before.
So let me ask you about, like, how does it hit as a Black filmmaker to be surrounded by Black filmmakers, whether it’s at, PAFF. I’m assuming it was, there might have been a similar vibe at ABFF. How does that hit you?
Jared Leaf: It’s interesting because we, out in the wild, we don’t see a lot of each other. So to have that concentration of Black filmmakers in one place is just a beautiful thing.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: I think we all have a lot of shared experiences, see the world through a similar lens but I think you’re also just able to appreciate the variety and diversity within that.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: Cause there’s a tendency to make the culture monolithic, but within that culture, there’s so much, diversity, so many different perspectives and stories. and man, it’s just fun, code switching is a thing, right? And you don’t feel the pressure to have to do that in a certain way. I was just gonna say, it just makes you appreciate the talent out here.
David Dylan Thomas: No, I was just gonna say, it’s like, if there was any code switching for me, it was like East Coast to West Coast.
Jared Leaf: You were code switching there, huh?
David Dylan Thomas: Cause there’s an LA vibe, right? There is. I love LA, but there was an LA vibe-
Jared Leaf: Oh …
David Dylan Thomas: Right down to like how I just, I chose to dress while I was out there. I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna wear T-shirts and jeans, but I’m gonna wear like a blazer over it. That’ll make it LA.” Yeah. there’s a whole vibe to it. It’s it’s just, it hits you a different way.
Jared Leaf: That’s funny, ’cause that’s how I met you.
David Dylan Thomas: Yes.
Jared Leaf: You were in a blazer at the filmmaker brunch.
David Dylan Thomas: Yes. That was my LA uniform. That’s my- I’m not just some rando in a T-shirt and jeans. I’m a filmmaker in LA. No, but, but no, I definitely resonate with that. And, the other thing that I note when you talk about that is that there is no less variety of genres, styles, approaches at an all Black film festival or mostly Black film festival than I’ve seen at any festival I’ve been to.
There is no less diversity. You can fill the room with a whole bunch of white people, you can fill the festival with a whole bunch of every ethnicity you can think of. But if you limit yourself to Black, brown filmmakers, you are gonna get as much, if not more variety than you will at any festival.
And that was, again, one of those things that I had to retrain myself, right? And reacquaint myself and say, “Oh, that’s right. We are everybody. We are every kind. We’re every creed, every belief, every artistic approach you can think of.” There is no such thing as a Black film in that, monolithic, “This is what a Black film is,” any more than there is no one way to be Black. That’s been my, I guess, over the past 20 years, re-education in- … ’cause when I growing up, I was a nerd, and in the ’80s that you can’t be Black and be a nerd.
You gotta pick a lane, right? And now it’s very different, right? I can rattle off 10 Black nerd podcasts, much less 10 Black nerds, right? But learning that there are so many different ways to be Black, I think is one of the blessings of being in our business at this time, is that we’re able to put that all on screen.
Jared Leaf: Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely, and that’s what’s been so beautiful about being at the Pan African Film Festival, where I met you, and that’s where we won our first award, the Audience Award.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah, I was– It’s so funny. So I was there at the banquet. I think you weren’t able to be there, and you won Best Short, and I texted you.
I’m like, “Yo.”
Jared Leaf: I was like, “No way.” But I wasn’t up for any awards,
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, they didn’t tell. Okay. Yeah. Yeah,
Jared Leaf: Because it was the Audience Award
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, That’s right. You don’t, yeah.
Jared Leaf: You don’t know, right? So I wasn’t up for any awards, and I was in LA, and I have friends out there,
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah
Jared Leaf: That was my only day to be able to see some people, so I was out with my friends, and I, my phone just bloop bloop, bloop. So I’m like, “No way.” But, but yeah, so we won the Audience Award there, which was just amazing and incredible. So much of our team was there to watch it too.
David Dylan Thomas: By the way, your team is one of the friendliest in the business. I was, so after our film screened, I was just hanging out. I had a great time as ever. We both had these great receptions to our films. We were hanging out in the lobby after. You do, like, all the handshakes and whatnot. And then I go out and I’m like, “I’m just gonna get an Uber home,” back to the hotel.
And I’m just hanging out there, and then some of the crew from “Spilled Milk” comes out, and I had sat next to one of them or something, and so we knew each other. And was like, “Hey, we’re gonna go get some dinner. You wanna come with?” I’m like, “Sure.” And I just ended up hanging out with your crew and the Monkeypaw people half the night.
It was awesome. So kudos on great people you work with.
Jared Leaf: That’s why the film is as good as it is. We had the best team possible. Everybody was so invested, put their talent into it, but they’re just great people, man.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: But yeah, so back to, Pan African Film Festival and then, American Black Film Festival, which we just did. And to your point about, audiences, I love watching films with Black audiences.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh my God, yes.
Jared Leaf: They’re the best audience. There is so much it’s a trade. It’s a back and forth.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: There’s so much audience participation. Because as a filmmaker, when you’re screening your film a lot of times all you hear is silence.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. That’s so frustrating.
Jared Leaf: And silence can either mean people are very invested in the film and just watching, or it can mean they’re bored.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah.
Jared Leaf: And they hate it, right? So you get no feedback in certain audiences when, they could be in there, they could like it, but you just wouldn’t know because they’re just watching it. A Black audience, you gonna know how they feel.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, yeah.
Jared Leaf: At every point concerned, they gonna let you know exactly how they feel. But it’s such a great feeling because if my intention with a certain choice or a certain beat of the film was to give you a reaction, you hear that reaction when you’re watching it and so that was just great about Pan African and Black Film Festival. It was just so fun and electric to be there with the audience and screening the films there.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah Pan African opened a lot of doors for me, but even if it hadn’t, just being there to see the audience, that was the best audience reaction I’ve had so far, was the one at Pan African and fortunately, I have a lot of laugh lines in my movie, so that is one thing where you can know if it hit or not. Like, when people are scared, they aren’t necessarily, it’s not gonna be visible always but if they find it funny, you’re gonna know. And they responded to stuff I didn’t even know they’d respond to, like stuff I didn’t even know was in there.
I can’t say without getting too spoilery what it was, but yeah. And I, as you talk about, watching with a Black audience, I long for the day, like this is my goal. I long for the day when someone talks back to one of my movies. It’s “Yes, I’ve done it.” I’ve hit the pinnacle. Someone yelled at the screen. I got it. I got it.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. it’s the best feeling. And that was like, that was the whole, the thesis of “Get Out.”
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s literally where the title comes from.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. Literally, right? But yeah it’s amazing. There’s no audience like Black audiences. And yeah, when we get to tell these stories and be at a festival with other filmmakers and creatives and feel that energy, it’s the best thing in the world.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. As we’re wrapping up here, I think I wanna circle back real quick. What’s next for “Spilled Milk”?
Jared Leaf: We are developing a feature right now.
David Dylan Thomas: Cool.
Jared Leaf: And so we’re just getting that together, getting ready to take it out. And yeah, we’ll see.
David Dylan Thomas: Do you know when– ’cause I’m gonna recommend right now, all y’all, when you get the chance to see “Spilled Milk,” see it, ’cause it is legit one of my favorite horror shorts. I still get nervous whenever I reach for the milk at the store.
So is there a way people are gonna be able to see it, between now and whenever?
Jared Leaf: We are still on our festival circuit right now. We have a couple coming up. We just got into the Sidewalk Film Festival, which is gonna be in Birmingham, Alabama.
David Dylan Thomas: Nice.
Jared Leaf: We’re also gonna do the Pan African Film Festival in Austin, Texas.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh, nice.
Jared Leaf: Yeah, they have another festival there. So we’re doing that. And then we have a couple more floaters out there right now, just waiting to see if we get admitted. So we are on our festival run right now. The film is not publicly available during that time.
David Dylan Thomas: Sure.
Jared Leaf: That’s just festival rules. But as soon as it is, man, I love festivals because they’re great, but there’s just days when I’m like, “Ah, I wish I could just drop this on YouTube.”
David Dylan Thomas: I already have a rough date cos I’m in a similar boat so I already have a rough date in mind when I wanna do that drop, and it’s yeah, ’cause you want people to see it.
If any of these festivals are near you, dear audience, go out of your way to check out “Spilled Milk.” It’s awesome. If people wanna keep up with you, keep up with “Spilled Milk,” what’s the best way to do that?
Jared Leaf: If they wanna keep up with the movie “Spilled Milk,” we have an Instagram page, @spilledmilkthemovie.
And we also have a website, spilledmilkthemovie.com. We post updates, behind the scenes. We have our trailer on there. We have photos, videos. You can learn more about us, about how we made the film. It’s just a really fun experience for fans of the film. They can keep updated with us on there.
If you wanna follow me, I’m @jaredleaf, J-A-R-E-D L-E-A-F, like a leaf on a tree. That is my personal page. I have my projects on there, and then my production company is called 93rd Story. That’s @93stry, and all the projects I’m working on, I tend to put on there. So if you wanna check out what I’m working on, if you’re interested in that, give us a follow.
David Dylan Thomas: Nice. And one last thing you just reminded me of before we go. Is it true that you shot “Spilled Milk” in Lego before you shot it for real?
Jared Leaf: It is true.
David Dylan Thomas: That was amazing. So there’s one of the Instagram reels he posted is this…you tell them. You tell them what you did.
Jared Leaf: Yeah. I, I’m trying to, I’m trying to think where this started, but I went to a commercial directing film school boot camp, and, Jordan Brady, who runs that, was talking about previz and creative ways that he does previz. And so through that, I had another project that I was doing with KevOnStage, and to previz that, I was like I can’t be down there in LA. I can’t go to the location, but maybe I could buy some Legos and just position the Legos and move them around as needed, and just use my iPhone to capture the angles.” So I did that, and I was like, “Wait, this actually worked.” And, it was a similar situation when it came to “Spilled Milk.”
I live in Portland, Oregon, and we were filming in LA, so I went and did the location scout, and I knew what the place looked like, the convenience store that we shot at, but I couldn’t be there and so the best way for me to previz, I bought a Lego grocery store and I rearranged it to match the exact aisles of the store. And because of that, I’m able to in 3D space, like previz, block things out. I got like a pack of 50 different characters, and I just mixed and matched their outfits and heads and hats until they matched the characters in the movie.
And so yeah, I had a Lego milkman. I had, our main character. And just in doing that, I took, there’s a app called Cadrage. Cadrage? C-A-D-R-A-G-E.
David Dylan Thomas: Okay.
Jared Leaf: And you can look at different cameras and different focal lengths on there and cycle through them so you know what the aspect ratio is and all that, and then you can capture stills in that.
David Dylan Thomas: Nice.
Jared Leaf: Using my Lego people, using Cadrage on my iPhone, and I also had these little Aputure MC lights. It’s color lights that you can use, but I was moving those around. Using those three things, I emulated the lighting that I wanted, the blocking that I wanted, and was able to mostly shot for shot, shoot the film and previz the film.
I even went as far as to do, motion capture, so I’d, move the Lego a little bit, move the camera a little bit, and just do a bunch of snapshots. But it worked.
David Dylan Thomas: That, that’s amazing, but it also sounds like a lot of fun.
Jared Leaf: So fun. It’s so fun. I’m over here with Legos, and my wife comes in “What are you doing?” I say, “I’m working!”
David Dylan Thomas: I did have in mind low res previz for the entire feature, “White Meat.” And I was trying to get my head around, and one of the things I considered was, action figures, right? So I’ve got, like, all these Star Wars action figures which are equivalently just as varied as so I’m like, “Okay, maybe I’ll do something with that.” But what I couldn’t figure out was the sets, and I’m like, that’s the master stroke for me with the Legos. It’s oh, I can literally just build sets, or I can take something that’s already, you know close to what I need. So I think I’m gonna do that. So thank you for that. and filmmakers out there, I think you should definitely consider this, ’cause Legos are cheaper than, high resolution computer programs.
Jared Leaf: If anybody does this, please send me your Lego previz.
David Dylan Thomas: Oh my God. That could be a whole YouTube channel, is just Lego previz. That would be amazing. The other thing I would think it might be fun for people who are more digitally inclined is to do Minecraft previz, because when we were building our addition, my son and I were both really into Minecraft, and so we tried to previz the addition in Minecraft, and the hardest part was actually trying to get the scale, right? But it was a lot of fun.
Jared Leaf: That’s a great idea, too.
David Dylan Thomas: Yeah. If you’re more into Minecraft than Lego again, just build the set in Minecraft, and you can do some similar camera angle shit and have fun.
So Jared, great to talk to you again. Great good luck with the film. and, yeah, it’s great talking to
Jared Leaf: Yeah, the pleasure was all mine, Dave.
David Dylan Thomas: And for “The White Meat Podcast,” I’m David Dylan Thomas, and we will catch you next time.
